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So after spending the last several days talking non-stop about how much I was looking forward to seeing IM3 I figured a reaction post was only in order.
It goes without saying that there will be SPOILERS. Big, honking GIANT SPOILERS. You have been warned.
Brutal assessment: Good story, bad storytelling.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of that movie. It...was and wasn't what I was expecting in the best possible way. And maybe that contributed to some of the movie's issues for me.
It was...disconnected. Not from the movies that came before it, so much as from itself. As the review at Gizmodo (or my friend H, I'm not sure who said it) commented, the movie felt both too short and too long. It dragged and at the same time it felt like there were pieces missing. Things did not connect one to another.
Hence my gripe on the storytelling.
Please don't get me wrong though. I loved the story, the idea behind it all. Tony Stark, stripped of everything he has and being forced to make do. Only, I think that felt hollow for me to because when the movie started? He wasn't arrogant, badass Tony Stark. He was scared, paranoid and clearly dealing with what was probably a major case of PTSD and a handful of anxiety issues. And then they kicked him while he was down some more. And, okay, here's why this doesn't ring true for me either.
Tony is keeping up with this Mandarin terror stuff on his own. That much is made clear, but it's not personal for him. The Ten Rings connection/implication to Tony's own abduction in Afghanistan is never clearly made or even really implicated. The only reason that Tony challenges the Mandarin is because he's goaded into it by a reporter when he's walking out of the hospital away from an injured happy. And basically he does it because the reporter goads him into playing the role that is Tony Stark for a soundbite. So Tony obliges and then tells him to go fuck himself (paraphrasing).
The thing is? This beat doesn't work. As fucking paranoid is Tony currently is in the movie (hanging out in the suits constantly like they're a security blanket, building dozens, building one that will fly to him immediately, and basically becoming Howard Hughes lite crazy) and after having opened the movie by admitting to Pepper, she (and protecting her) are the most important thing in his life, why the hell would he go and deliberately leave her in harms way? Arrogance? Sure. Maybe, for IM1 Tony Stark, but not paranoid Mark III Tony Stark. It was stupidity for the convenience of plot and when that happens in a story, it becomes the point where people are unwilling to suspend their disbelief.
If there's one thing I've learned about writing (and I'm not claiming to be any expert), it's that you should always take the hard choice. And by that I mean, don't sacrifice characterization to make a plot point easier. Your readers/viewers will hate you for it (or at least disengage, even if it's in a subconscious way.)
Which brings me to my other issue: suspension of disbelief. There were several times I had a problem with that. I'm normally pretty good at freezing scenes and snippets of dialogue from a movie or tv show in my head, even on a first viewing. Years of practice at capturing moments to use in fic, but I had a hard time doing that with this one for some reason. My point is I can't give any specific instances but...oh wait, Tony, breaking into that mansion in Miami. I'm pretty sure I rolled my eyes so hard up into the back of my head, they still haven't come out. It just felt...Iron Man is a badass. Tony Stark is a billionaire, playboy, philanthropist. He is not a ninja or the Black Widow. He was coming dangerously close to acting like both. And then he was back to like being incapable when he had Rhodey at his back. I mean I love Rhodey having his chance to shine, but...continuity is your friend.
Okay, so The Mandarin. If you've seen it, you know there's a plot twist concerning his identity. If you haven't, holy shit, you're so thoroughly spoiled by now. I didn't mind that the Mandarin wasn't actually the supreme terrorist badass that the trailer led us to believe. I mean, I wish he had been. Because that would have been insane. But the thing is, Iron Man has never been about the villain. The movies have always been the coming of age story of Tony Stark, how he became a Real Boy. The villians have almost been incidental, more a reflection of his internal struggle, or a way to demonstrate it if you will. The true villain of IM2 was palladium and/or his heart. That was what Tony had to overcome before he could defeat Vanko. So, okay, in a way this fits the pattern of Iron Man really well. And Sir Ben Kingsely was funny as hell. I guess what I'm saying is, it didn't leave me in awe and it didn't impress me, but I didn't hate it. Yay?
The real villain? Eh. He wasn't really terrifying or impressive either. He was good at being a bad guy. I understood his motives. They didn't seem stupid. He was super creepy towards Pepper and I'm glad she mostly shot him down from the beginning, and I'm really extra glad she got to wale on him with whatever the hell that was at the end.
Unrelated Observation: This is the first time that we really see Tony Stark without a purpose. He's trying to redefine himself and he finds himself at loose ends. Apparently that is not a good place for him to be.
And now for my favorite part of the movie: Pepper Potts, ladies and gentlebeings.
Pepper? Was fucking awesome. The only part of the trailer that I wish they'd left in the movie: when Pepper walks in all "Honey, I'm home." If only because I kind of love the role reversal implicit. There may be fic.
I LOVED all the Tony and Pepper moments that we got, even if they weren't all happy or what I was expecting. They were THERE. As long as they were in there, I don't care. I do wish the scene with Maya Hansen, Tony and Pepper in the mansion had been redone a little more clearly. They were going for the old Tony and Pepper back and forth, two conversations at the same time - and that usually works really well for them - but not so much this time. It needed to be more...clear.
Heh. And speaking of Maya Hansen and Pepper...the minute I saw those two on the bed together I knew there would be fic and it would be femslash. I was right. I'm pretty sure it was the way Pepper was folding her legs and leaning, or maybe the inviting smile on her face? Like I didn't see a plot point for there to be chemistry (even in a femslash, headcanon kind of way), but it was there anyway. So, yeah. Thanks for proving me right, Internet.
Getting back to Pepper though...girlfriend had a hard, awesome movie, from getting emotionally put through the ringer by Tony (though I may have swooned when he said that her moving in was the only thing saving him from going bonkers) to getting blown up, saving Tony's ass in his own suit, being tortured and simultaneously perved on by Killian to well, dying. Here's the thing - I think the implication of the movie is that Pepper has a little crisis of faith in Tony. Not that she didn't trust him, but that she's not sure if he's dealing with a full deck of cards. Does that make sense? She trusts the man, but she's not sure that he's the man she can trust. Which makes that moments that Tony is reaching his hand out to save Pepper two of my favorites, both when she's trapped under the debris and when she's dangling from the scaffolding or whatever.
Both situations required a leap of faith and both times Tony failed, even if through no fault of his own. And that moment, when he reaches for her hand and she's falling and she just slips right past him... If there were a lot of moments in this movie that didn't work, that one did. If I could have only picked one to work, well, it would have been that one too. And that shock, that oh-no-they-didn't, didn't last very long, but it did a damn good job while it lasted.
What it means for the movie and Pepper though is that Pepper got to save herself, not just herself but Tony. She. Saved. His. Ass. For real, in his own superhero movie. Which is amazing and revolutionary and I'm sure there will be someone saying that it diminished his masculinity or badassery or whatever, but...no. I stand by my earlier point, Tony Stark's fight has always been against himself and he won that fight on his own. Letting Pepper go toe-to-toe with Killian was just some sweet awesome revenge for everything he'd done to her and to Tony through the whole movie. I loved, loved, loved that we got to see her protective side, several times even. Because if you don't think Pepper spent loads of her employ with Tony protecting him then...I don't even know. But it was awesome. As was glow-y, badass, fire-y Pepper.
I loved her vulnerable moment too, after she got done with Killian, freaking out when Tony touched her because she didn't want to burn him. It was good stuff. Giving Pepper Extremis wasn't what I was expecting, but if you've read Matt Fraction's Invincible Iron Man, this capture the spirit of Rescue really well. In the comics Pepper saves Tony's ass in a major way like this, too, and when she does she tells him to run because he can't protect himself (for reasons) and this is what he's been preparing her for, so let her do this. I think the same mostly applies here and I love the way that in a sense that it makes them more equal. Not necessarily that I think Pepper was lacking before. Pepper Potts will always be able to handle whatever Tony Stark throws at her, but Rescue is...something special. And I wouldn't mind if they preserved the chance to explore that if they come back for another movie.
(Please let them come back for another movie.)
And I really want to see what the fan fic writers do with the gaps in this movie; there were plenty just dying to be filled in, like say Pepper's recovery, what Tony had to do to fix her - and himself- and did anything go wrong along the way? Surely it did, and can't Tony maybe nurse her back to health a little. I'm just saying it was good for the shippers.
So my vote? If you're on the fence, go see the movie. Be aware it will drag a little in places, but try not to hold it against the movie itself. If you dig Tony Stark, if you're a Tony/Pepper fan, or if you just dig funny one-liners, it's still a damn entertaining movie to see. Well worth the ten bucks and two hours of your life. Though...I saw it in 2D and I don't see what 3D would really have to add, for what that's worth.
It goes without saying that there will be SPOILERS. Big, honking GIANT SPOILERS. You have been warned.
Brutal assessment: Good story, bad storytelling.
Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed the hell out of that movie. It...was and wasn't what I was expecting in the best possible way. And maybe that contributed to some of the movie's issues for me.
It was...disconnected. Not from the movies that came before it, so much as from itself. As the review at Gizmodo (or my friend H, I'm not sure who said it) commented, the movie felt both too short and too long. It dragged and at the same time it felt like there were pieces missing. Things did not connect one to another.
Hence my gripe on the storytelling.
Please don't get me wrong though. I loved the story, the idea behind it all. Tony Stark, stripped of everything he has and being forced to make do. Only, I think that felt hollow for me to because when the movie started? He wasn't arrogant, badass Tony Stark. He was scared, paranoid and clearly dealing with what was probably a major case of PTSD and a handful of anxiety issues. And then they kicked him while he was down some more. And, okay, here's why this doesn't ring true for me either.
Tony is keeping up with this Mandarin terror stuff on his own. That much is made clear, but it's not personal for him. The Ten Rings connection/implication to Tony's own abduction in Afghanistan is never clearly made or even really implicated. The only reason that Tony challenges the Mandarin is because he's goaded into it by a reporter when he's walking out of the hospital away from an injured happy. And basically he does it because the reporter goads him into playing the role that is Tony Stark for a soundbite. So Tony obliges and then tells him to go fuck himself (paraphrasing).
The thing is? This beat doesn't work. As fucking paranoid is Tony currently is in the movie (hanging out in the suits constantly like they're a security blanket, building dozens, building one that will fly to him immediately, and basically becoming Howard Hughes lite crazy) and after having opened the movie by admitting to Pepper, she (and protecting her) are the most important thing in his life, why the hell would he go and deliberately leave her in harms way? Arrogance? Sure. Maybe, for IM1 Tony Stark, but not paranoid Mark III Tony Stark. It was stupidity for the convenience of plot and when that happens in a story, it becomes the point where people are unwilling to suspend their disbelief.
If there's one thing I've learned about writing (and I'm not claiming to be any expert), it's that you should always take the hard choice. And by that I mean, don't sacrifice characterization to make a plot point easier. Your readers/viewers will hate you for it (or at least disengage, even if it's in a subconscious way.)
Which brings me to my other issue: suspension of disbelief. There were several times I had a problem with that. I'm normally pretty good at freezing scenes and snippets of dialogue from a movie or tv show in my head, even on a first viewing. Years of practice at capturing moments to use in fic, but I had a hard time doing that with this one for some reason. My point is I can't give any specific instances but...oh wait, Tony, breaking into that mansion in Miami. I'm pretty sure I rolled my eyes so hard up into the back of my head, they still haven't come out. It just felt...Iron Man is a badass. Tony Stark is a billionaire, playboy, philanthropist. He is not a ninja or the Black Widow. He was coming dangerously close to acting like both. And then he was back to like being incapable when he had Rhodey at his back. I mean I love Rhodey having his chance to shine, but...continuity is your friend.
Okay, so The Mandarin. If you've seen it, you know there's a plot twist concerning his identity. If you haven't, holy shit, you're so thoroughly spoiled by now. I didn't mind that the Mandarin wasn't actually the supreme terrorist badass that the trailer led us to believe. I mean, I wish he had been. Because that would have been insane. But the thing is, Iron Man has never been about the villain. The movies have always been the coming of age story of Tony Stark, how he became a Real Boy. The villians have almost been incidental, more a reflection of his internal struggle, or a way to demonstrate it if you will. The true villain of IM2 was palladium and/or his heart. That was what Tony had to overcome before he could defeat Vanko. So, okay, in a way this fits the pattern of Iron Man really well. And Sir Ben Kingsely was funny as hell. I guess what I'm saying is, it didn't leave me in awe and it didn't impress me, but I didn't hate it. Yay?
The real villain? Eh. He wasn't really terrifying or impressive either. He was good at being a bad guy. I understood his motives. They didn't seem stupid. He was super creepy towards Pepper and I'm glad she mostly shot him down from the beginning, and I'm really extra glad she got to wale on him with whatever the hell that was at the end.
Unrelated Observation: This is the first time that we really see Tony Stark without a purpose. He's trying to redefine himself and he finds himself at loose ends. Apparently that is not a good place for him to be.
And now for my favorite part of the movie: Pepper Potts, ladies and gentlebeings.
Pepper? Was fucking awesome. The only part of the trailer that I wish they'd left in the movie: when Pepper walks in all "Honey, I'm home." If only because I kind of love the role reversal implicit. There may be fic.
I LOVED all the Tony and Pepper moments that we got, even if they weren't all happy or what I was expecting. They were THERE. As long as they were in there, I don't care. I do wish the scene with Maya Hansen, Tony and Pepper in the mansion had been redone a little more clearly. They were going for the old Tony and Pepper back and forth, two conversations at the same time - and that usually works really well for them - but not so much this time. It needed to be more...clear.
Heh. And speaking of Maya Hansen and Pepper...the minute I saw those two on the bed together I knew there would be fic and it would be femslash. I was right. I'm pretty sure it was the way Pepper was folding her legs and leaning, or maybe the inviting smile on her face? Like I didn't see a plot point for there to be chemistry (even in a femslash, headcanon kind of way), but it was there anyway. So, yeah. Thanks for proving me right, Internet.
Getting back to Pepper though...girlfriend had a hard, awesome movie, from getting emotionally put through the ringer by Tony (though I may have swooned when he said that her moving in was the only thing saving him from going bonkers) to getting blown up, saving Tony's ass in his own suit, being tortured and simultaneously perved on by Killian to well, dying. Here's the thing - I think the implication of the movie is that Pepper has a little crisis of faith in Tony. Not that she didn't trust him, but that she's not sure if he's dealing with a full deck of cards. Does that make sense? She trusts the man, but she's not sure that he's the man she can trust. Which makes that moments that Tony is reaching his hand out to save Pepper two of my favorites, both when she's trapped under the debris and when she's dangling from the scaffolding or whatever.
Both situations required a leap of faith and both times Tony failed, even if through no fault of his own. And that moment, when he reaches for her hand and she's falling and she just slips right past him... If there were a lot of moments in this movie that didn't work, that one did. If I could have only picked one to work, well, it would have been that one too. And that shock, that oh-no-they-didn't, didn't last very long, but it did a damn good job while it lasted.
What it means for the movie and Pepper though is that Pepper got to save herself, not just herself but Tony. She. Saved. His. Ass. For real, in his own superhero movie. Which is amazing and revolutionary and I'm sure there will be someone saying that it diminished his masculinity or badassery or whatever, but...no. I stand by my earlier point, Tony Stark's fight has always been against himself and he won that fight on his own. Letting Pepper go toe-to-toe with Killian was just some sweet awesome revenge for everything he'd done to her and to Tony through the whole movie. I loved, loved, loved that we got to see her protective side, several times even. Because if you don't think Pepper spent loads of her employ with Tony protecting him then...I don't even know. But it was awesome. As was glow-y, badass, fire-y Pepper.
I loved her vulnerable moment too, after she got done with Killian, freaking out when Tony touched her because she didn't want to burn him. It was good stuff. Giving Pepper Extremis wasn't what I was expecting, but if you've read Matt Fraction's Invincible Iron Man, this capture the spirit of Rescue really well. In the comics Pepper saves Tony's ass in a major way like this, too, and when she does she tells him to run because he can't protect himself (for reasons) and this is what he's been preparing her for, so let her do this. I think the same mostly applies here and I love the way that in a sense that it makes them more equal. Not necessarily that I think Pepper was lacking before. Pepper Potts will always be able to handle whatever Tony Stark throws at her, but Rescue is...something special. And I wouldn't mind if they preserved the chance to explore that if they come back for another movie.
(Please let them come back for another movie.)
And I really want to see what the fan fic writers do with the gaps in this movie; there were plenty just dying to be filled in, like say Pepper's recovery, what Tony had to do to fix her - and himself- and did anything go wrong along the way? Surely it did, and can't Tony maybe nurse her back to health a little. I'm just saying it was good for the shippers.
So my vote? If you're on the fence, go see the movie. Be aware it will drag a little in places, but try not to hold it against the movie itself. If you dig Tony Stark, if you're a Tony/Pepper fan, or if you just dig funny one-liners, it's still a damn entertaining movie to see. Well worth the ten bucks and two hours of your life. Though...I saw it in 2D and I don't see what 3D would really have to add, for what that's worth.
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I agree with a lot of your points. I loved Tony/Pepper.
I really didn't like the villain situation. I could have lived with the Mandarin not being, well, the Mandarin, if Killian worked as a villain but he just didn't for me.
All in all, while there are lots of amazing things in this film, it feels as if there's a lot of things that weren't thought through properly and as if the movie was made in a rushed manner. Could have been worse, but could have been so much better. Because when this film does it right, IT IS EXCELLENT!
I won't see it again in the cinema; I'll wait till it's out on disc.